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michael_b (952 D)
12 Aug 17 UTC
Question: Adding Variant(s)
Please see reply.
57 replies
Open
Halt (1276 D)
10 Feb 18 UTC
Can't send press during build phase?
Hi, during one of my games, I seem to not be able to send press during build phase? I have been away from the site for a few years, so is this a new feature/rule I'm unaware of or is there something wrong with the game I'm in?

gameID=33649
2 replies
Open
nopunin10did (1041 D)
22 Jan 18 UTC
Email notifications?
Does vDiplomacy not have an option to send email notifications upon important game events?

I just recently set up a game, then came back to check on it a couple days later only to find that I'd NMR'd it without even knowing. I couldn't find anything in my email, even in Spam or Trash.
15 replies
Open
Enriador (1491 D (B))
07 Feb 18 UTC
WTA vs Draw-Disvaluated Scoring
What about adding Draw-Disvaluated Scoring to vDip?

It's a mix of Calhamer Scoring (aka Winner-Takes-All) with Draw-Zero Scoring, and has the fortunate effect of pushing players towards a solo unless a draw is absolutely necessary. Solos work like in WTA, but draws are different.
22 replies
Open
Grahamso1 (1423 D)
05 Feb 18 UTC
PPSC vs SoS
I couldn’t find the answer in Help.
I know PPSC means in a solo the points are allocated based on supply centre count while in a draw it reverts to an equal split of points like DSS/WTA
For SoS over on WebDip, in a draw the points are allocated on a sum of Squares principle. But Help section doesn’t say what happens in a solo. Same method or reverts to winner takes all? I’m assuming SoS whether draw or solo but checking
Thanks
ScubaSteve (1199 D)
05 Feb 18 UTC
(+1)
SoS gives all points to the winner. Just like God intended. At least that is what I have been assuming all this time. Yikes. What if I am wrong?
tantrumizer (1353 D)
06 Feb 18 UTC
(+1)
You are not wrong. Best regards, God's Representative

SoS is WTA for a solo.
RUFFHAUS 8 (2501 D)
06 Feb 18 UTC
(+1)
The Sum of Squares scoring system is one designed for FTF tournaments where a form a measurement of performance across multiple players and boards is necessary on Sunday afternnoons before players rush off to the airports. It's not a good tool for scoring these round robin tournaments so popular at VDip, where you have an excellent measure of performance across each position on the map over the life of the competition. There's no need to accelerate the scoring for Sunday afternoon since the events stretch out for months at their own pace. The dangers of SoS scoring is the wave of thrown solos as the greed factor kicks in exponentially to rub out nations that might otherwise participate in a strategic draw. We've seen SoS destroy the Known World Tournament with just such an example. We also saw it lead a game to be stretched out for 8 more months just to kill a single one supply center nation. Sum of Square has its's usefulness in FTF tournaments, but here it's like using a chainsaw to clip a rose bush.
nopunin10did (1041 D)
06 Feb 18 UTC
@RUFFHAUS

I'm a tad confused. In the example you give, the points for that 1-center power would be almost zero under an SoS system. It's when all survivors share draws equally that there's more incentive to wipe out the little guys.
ScubaSteve (1199 D)
06 Feb 18 UTC
Herr Haus is correct. Of course, perhaps having tourney games be anonymous might be a less elegant but cleaner solution?
d-ice (1963 D)
06 Feb 18 UTC
(+1)
The main benefit of SoS, C-diplo and most other designed scoring systems is when playing “short games” tourneys (i.e. with a fixed end year, just like Ftf tourneys often are). WTA makes more sense in games where these limits do not apply. PPSC never makes sense. Just my two rupees.
nopunin10did (1041 D)
06 Feb 18 UTC
Considering that Max Turns is an option when setting up a game, I'm surprised that SoS or something along those lines isn't at least available in that case.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
06 Feb 18 UTC
(+1)
SoS is still not a thing, because I did not bother to code this for our vDip-rating.
nopunin10did (1041 D)
06 Feb 18 UTC
That’s as good a reason as any :-)
Captainmeme (1400 D Mod (B))
07 Feb 18 UTC
(+1)
SoS isn't great for variants because the amount it awards players varies wildly depending on the number of SCs on the map. If the SC count is high, large players will be rewarded a huge percentage of the points, while players who make it into the draw on 4 or 5 centers will be given practically nothing for their survival.

I'd definitely disagree with people saying it's specialised for FTF - it actually solves a lot of endgame issues in online Diplomacy too, taking away the choice players often have to make between pursuing a solo or eliminating players for a smaller draw by making the draw reward a player for how close they were to achieving the solo, while still making sure the solo is worth a large amount more than any draw and losing is worth nothing (so avoiding the PPSC problems). However, it *is* specialised for the classic, 34 center variant, so it's not really an appropriate scoring system for vDip.
nopunin10did (1041 D)
07 Feb 18 UTC
Another option, other than SoS, is a rank-based system. C-Diplo is one option, though the Carnage system is gaining a lot of popularity in Face-to-Face.

A modified form of Carnage could potentially work here, and it would work for variants as well.

In a solo, the winner still gets all the points.

All draws are DIAS, but you don't share in the draw equally. Instead of your points being based solely on SC counts, they're based on your rank in comparison to other players.

Rank is determined by final SC count, or for eliminated players, how long you survived (the longer the better).

In a standard 7-player match:
7000 for 1st
6000 for 2nd
5000 for 3rd
4000 for 4th
3000 for 5th
2000 for 6th
1000 for 7th

Players that tie for rank split the points for all applicable ranks. Two players tie for first, for example would get 6500 points each. The next-highest player would then be ranked third.

This point value would then be trivially converted into vDip points as (YourPoints / AllPointsAwarded). In a seven-player match, this means the board-topper would received about as many points as what they'd get in a four-player draw.

(A slight modification to this system can give 0 points to the last-ranked player and 1000 fewer to everyone else, though generally some points are allocated to last place for a non-solo scenario as a small incentive not to throw the match, assuming that player hasn't yet been eliminated. Making such a modification increases the % of final points held by those in top ranks.)

This system can easily expand to adjust to the number of players. While true Carnage also grants one point each per SC held at game's end (with all 34 granted to the winner of a solo), this is really only used as a tournament tiebreaker, and it would have less value here.

The pluses of this system:
- It encourages players to weigh the relative merits of holding a firm stalemate line versus jockeying for position. As such, it can add some unpredictability to the late game.
- It discourages draw-whittling, as it's unlikely to make an enormous impact on the final score whether a single power with 1-2 SC's remains on the map.
- There's a more significant difference between the points an individual can receive in a solo versus the best one can receive in a draw.

The minuses of the system:
- Because draws aren't shared equally, to some this feels like a betrayal of the original rules.
- While I personally see the impact on the endgame as a positive, it can change the character of the typical stalemate-line staring-match, which some may object to.
- After being eliminated, your eventual final score is dependent on factors that you no longer have any influence on. If the game ends in a draw, you may get points; if it ends in a solo, you get nothing. Modifications to this system can adjust for this situation, though they could bring back the emphasis on draw-whittling in a zero-sum environment such as this.
Enriador (1491 D (B))
07 Feb 18 UTC
@Captainmeme

"However, it *is* specialised for the classic, 34 center variant, so it's not really an appropriate scoring system for vDip."

Isn't Classic the most played non-2 players map? Introducing SoS for Classic alone is arguably worth it even if some variants would be corrupted by it.

All it takes is a "Note: Sum-of-Squares scoring should be applied to Classic only" in the game creation screen and voi-a-la. It's technically possible to make 7 points game be PPSC and 500 points timed games be WTA, but the community is more than capable of avoiding these weird variant/score combinations.
zurn (1178 D)
07 Feb 18 UTC
The points for an eliminated player in the Carnage system seems problematic to me. What about ranking all players regardless of result, doubling the point for a solo winner, and halving them for an eliminated player?

Or is the goal of the carnage system to increase the odds of a solo and encourage sniping at people who aren't in the lead but might overtake you?
nopunin10did (1041 D)
09 Feb 18 UTC
@zurn

My understanding is that the goal of the Carnage system is indeed to increase the odds of a solo (and to ensure there's a significant difference in points between a solo and the best you can receive in a win). It's also intended to reduce the odds that players are eliminated just for the sake of removing them from the draw size, rather than for strategic purposes.

As for sniping, I believe the idea is that in a typical "stop the solo!" scenario, players are encouraged to weigh the relative benefits of jockeying for position versus holding the line. If you think you can risk a little shakeup in the status quo and still block the solo, that sniping could be beneficial.

Like C-Diplo and other rank-based systems, it's also built to work well in scenarios where the game has to have a defined endpoint. Most Carnage-based tournaments, to my understanding, allow games to go on as long as they need to, but there's often at least one round that has to have a clock limit (if not a year limit) for practical reasons.

The modifications you mention (particularly for reducing points of an eliminated rank) actually could work well in a non-zero-sum environment. I'm running a variant tournament that uses a similar system to tie together five _very_ different variants (http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=56099). I would NOT recommend this exact system outside the specific tournament setting it was build for, however.

A rank-based system where eliminated players lose more points is theoretically possible, I imagine, but the mathematics of getting it to work in a zero-sum environment are particularly difficult. A big piece of it all comes down to whether a solo should take 100% of the points; in a controlled tournament, this isn't as important, but in an asynchronous environment, it's pretty vital.


14 replies
Technostar (1425 D (B))
03 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
"Divided States" - New variant in progress
"Divided States" is a variant where every US state is a country. I am looking for advice about it. See reply for details.
61 replies
Open
Greatdjenkins (977 D)
30 Jan 18 UTC
you hippies whats in da hood
come at me bro, when people see u they be like FATYYYYYYYY
7 replies
Open
Just a heads up...
I'm headed to our cabin for a week tomorrow. I'll still get internet on the phone when we head into town for dinner each night, but my communication may be lacking in game on any press games.
5 replies
Open
GOD (1664 D Mod (B))
27 Jan 18 UTC
Looking for Callifornians
I'm currently travelling through California for a good month and wondered if there's any players out here who'd like to meet or maybe even host me?
2 replies
Open
Greatdjenkins (977 D)
22 Jan 18 UTC
Ambassidor is a crybaby
ambassidor, and argentinaian empire looooooooooove fluttershy and dora, although i think argentianian empire might like boots ( doras pet monkey, hes a boy )
9 replies
Open
Brenden (928 D)
25 Jan 18 UTC
call me
hey girl
2 replies
Open
kaner406 (1416 D Mod (B) (B))
19 Jan 18 UTC
(+1)
Mod announcement
Please join us in welcoming gopher to our mod-team. We promise not to let him use his newfound powers to win the "winning" thread.
8 replies
Open
Temasek22 (975 D)
18 Jan 18 UTC
Help
I can’t login for the next few days. Would appreciate if anyone can help step in
0 replies
Open
SKIZM (969 D)
14 Jan 18 UTC
A noob question about R###
Hey Guys, new to the site (and fairly new to diplomacy).
Next to players names are their diplomacy points, I get all that, but next to that is an R### number, I may be missing it, but I cant see this in the rules. (ie name is NAME(1000/R92). What does this number mean?
5 replies
Open
karajandiem (1098 D)
14 Jan 18 UTC
Ancient Mediterranean
Looking for more players for a chill Ancient Med game! http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=33453
2 replies
Open
Flame (1080 D (B))
11 Jan 18 UTC
C. Kostick. The Art of Correspondence in the Game of Diplomacy
Stabbeurfou.org informs:
New book about game Diplomacy is avalible on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Art-Correspondence-Game-Diplomacy-ebook/dp/B015XAJFM0/
0 replies
Open
Greatdjenkins (977 D)
22 Dec 17 UTC
New game
if i made a new game with 36 people would anyone be interested, its a ww2 map
4 replies
Open
kaner406 (1416 D Mod (B) (B))
07 Jan 18 UTC
Mod recruitment.
Hello all. We are currently looking for a new moderator to help out around the site.
6 replies
Open
Captainmeme (1400 D Mod (B))
08 Jan 18 UTC
WebDiplomacy 2018 GvI and FvA Showdowns - Signups now open!
More info (and signup form) here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=84
0 replies
Open
BenjaminHester (1035 D)
03 Jan 18 UTC
Global Admin Message for Players of Siege of the Ishiyama Honganji
Bug reported regarding last season results. Please pause.
1 reply
Open
Greatdjenkins (977 D)
04 Jan 18 UTC
I'm better than everyone
No one can beat me it's like your all tiny, puny ants, and I'm the giant that squashes you haha. Fight me puny crybaby girls. Come at meeeeee!!!!!this me
5 replies
Open
Flame (1080 D (B))
26 Nov 17 UTC
(+2)
Punic Wars COMING soon!
Punic Wars based on Sail Ho variant.
Coming soon.

http://lab.diplomail.ru/variants.php?variantID=201
15 replies
Open
BenjaminHester (1035 D)
21 Nov 17 UTC
Sengoku Nagashino Feedback Thread
Hi Sengoku Nagashino players - please deposit your thoughts here for designer digestion as the first round of games resolves.

Please do not directly comment on the situation/players etc. of any active games. Please limit your comments to the variant design itself, as it appears at gamestart. Once a game has completed, it is fair game for analysis, but not before please.
29 replies
Open
Greatdjenkins (977 D)
30 Dec 17 UTC
what happened to our game argentinaen empire
whats the deal, i cant find the game anymore.
3 replies
Open
BobRoss (1752 D)
03 Jan 18 UTC
Still looking for replacements (3 games)
Other obligations make it impossible for me to play my games as they ought to be played.
1 reply
Open
gopher27 (1226 D Mod)
30 Dec 17 UTC
Deep philosophical question about American culture
So I teach at a major public research university. And I keep noticing that my male students in their early 20s seem with a surprisingly high probability to be intimately familiar with the movie Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood. This movie came out when I was in high school. And at the same time, they seem ignorant of In Living Color which is readily available on Youtube. So why DBAMTSCWDYJITH and not, for example, I'm Gonna Git You Sucka?
6 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1675 D (B) (B))
08 Dec 17 UTC
Drunk postings only
This forum thread is for VDip players to post when they are a little bit pissed.
37 replies
Open
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
01 Jan 18 UTC
(+2)
Happy new year
No new year thread here...?
Wish you all a happy new year.
2 replies
Open
JECE (1184 D)
18 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
Is there a new mobile website?
It looks great, but could I turn it off? I use a BlackBerry Passport, which has a nice big screen and doesn't need it.
101 replies
Open
Chumbles (1069 D)
24 Dec 17 UTC
(+2)
Merry Christmas!
Have a brilliant Christmas day - it's already started in Oz!
11 replies
Open
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