Enriador -
It's called "East Indies" and made by David Cohen. It's a combination of two existing variants (already on vDip), "Maharajah" (https://vdiplomacy.com/variants.php?variantID=74) and "Spice Islands" (https://vdiplomacy.com/variants.php?variantID=116) with some very minor modifications to account for the new dynamics. It's a 14-player variant - plenty of room for intrigue.
You can check for more details and see the original map here: http://diplomiscellany.tripod.com/id23.html
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Thank you, Enriador. As I had mentioned elsewhere, when I designed Spice Islands, I drafted it to the same scale as Maharajah's. Since the two were in the same time period, I always had it in the back of my mind to combine them.
The rather land oriented Maharajah's map and the very fleet-heavy Spice Islands map complement each other well.
G-Man (2290 D)
New Thu 11 AM
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Thanks guys. Nice to have more 10-20 power variants (which are my favorites to play!).
vixol (1295 D)
New Thu 04 PM
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Why not put a power in China too?
GOD (1718 D Mod (B))
New Thu 05 PM
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Because nobody wants a powerful China (or Gina, as some world leaders might say)
vixol (1295 D)
New Thu 07 PM
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:D
David E. Cohen (1000 D)
New Thu 08 PM
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GOD is correct, vixol. China, at the time of the variant, was so much larger and more powerful than the other Powers in this setting that it would be weird to include it. Since China was also very inward-looking and on the edge of the map, making it impassable was an easy decision.
David E. Cohen (1000 D)
New Thu 08 PM
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G-Man, my latest variant should be to your liking. Dawn of the Enlightenment is a global, 15 Power variant set in 1701. I am quite proud of it. DotE is in playtesting now. I am looking at some map changes and rules simplification for version 2.0.
drano019 (2179 D)
New Thu 09 PM
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David -
Out of curiosity, what type of rules simplification are you looking at? In order for DoTE to get ported to vDip, you'd have to cut out some of the cooler rules like upgrading SCs to full strength (and units), the loss and recapture rule, and the different victory conditions. At that point, it's not even really the same game, much like the WWIV map here is nothing like NWO without the wings/nukes/voting.
GOD (1718 D Mod (B))
New Thu 09 PM
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Where and how would I be able to Play WWIV with extra rules?
drano019 (2179 D)
New Thu 09 PM
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GOD -
Games were run somewhat regularly on Redscape for the past handful of years at least, but the last one ended in March of 2017, and there hasn't been any push to pick up a new one yet that I've heard of. It has to be hand-adjudicated by a GM, and it's a ton of work (and often difficult to get enough signups for a full game), so it needs someone willing to make that sacrifice first.
David E. Cohen (1000 D)
New Fri 12 AM
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drano, I would rather not discuss specific changes with you while the playtest is still running. My thoughts on posible changes and the reasons for them could influence player perceptions in the playtest.
Enriador (1491 D (B))
New Fri 12 AM
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Dawn of the Enlightenment seems like a ton of fun (observing the playtest). With David's blessing I may port it to vDip too... some day.
G-Man (2290 D)
New Fri 04 AM
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I had looked over the info you posted previously on DotE and am very intruiged David. It will be interesting to see how you transfer that over to vDip. Thanks for all that you do.
vixol (1295 D)
New Fri 07 PM
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I used to play a variant created by Borger Borgersen that was called Global Supremacy. We played it in the Swedish zine Red Dwarf. That variant had a rule for "armyfleets" that made it possible for an army to embark a fleet and tag along. Also, the fleet could both disambark the army AND support the disembarkment.
Apropos nothing...
drano019 (2179 D)
New Fri 09 PM
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@ David -
Totally understandable. Sometimes I have brain farts like that. I look forward to discussing it after the playtest ends.
Can someone post this next part to Enriador since I think he can't see my posts:
@Enriador -
Be careful with porting games over (even with the creator's blessing) just because they look cool. DoTE has a lot of special rules that are simply not possible (I believe) to put into vDip. I do not believe the vDip code allows for some SCs to be half strength, and some full strength, nor does it allow you to "upgrade" SCs in the middle of the game. Also, I think the vDip code only allows for 2 unit "types", which means having half strength armies/fleets and full strength armies/fleets is not possible.
This is what I think RUFFHAUS was trying to get at when he was attacking you over spamming variants. Taking all those rules away from DoTE means it's not the same variant anymore. There's no point porting a variant when all the special rules that make it balanced are taken away. Quality over quantity. David spent a ton of time designing the variant as it stands, and taking away a lot of those special designs makes the variant unrecognizable. That's the reason NWO never got ported (although a version of the map did, but not the actual variant), as it has too many special rules/units to work with vDip. I don't see any reason to port DoTE to vDip, as you'd have to make LOTS of changes to the game to try to recreate balance once all the special rules are taken away.
Enriador (1491 D (B))
New 07:00 AM
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@G-Man, the idea with DotE would be similar to what has been done with Maharajah. Maharajah actually had somewhat "complex" rules originally (http://diplomiscellany.tripod.com/id4.html) but David kindly adapted those to provide for the largest number of adjudicators possible. I expect the same attention will be brought to DotE.
@vixol, never heard about that! I think Fred C. Davis did a very similar rule regarding Army/Fleet rules. These could be used in any variant, and if I am not mistaken even got Realpolitik support at some point.
drano019 (2179 D)
New 07:08 AM
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Can someone repost my message for Enriador from before please? It appears I'm still blocked.
DoTEs come rules are significantly more game changing than the ones in Maharajah. Changing DoTEs rules would drastically alter the variant to the point where it's something completely different.
Sky_Hopper (825 D)
New 09:32 AM
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I'm blocked too, but maybe it can go through?
"@ David -
Totally understandable. Sometimes I have brain farts like that. I look forward to discussing it after the playtest ends.
Can someone post this next part to Enriador since I think he can't see my posts:
@Enriador -
Be careful with porting games over (even with the creator's blessing) just because they look cool. DoTE has a lot of special rules that are simply not possible (I believe) to put into vDip. I do not believe the vDip code allows for some SCs to be half strength, and some full strength, nor does it allow you to "upgrade" SCs in the middle of the game. Also, I think the vDip code only allows for 2 unit "types", which means having half strength armies/fleets and full strength armies/fleets is not possible.
This is what I think RUFFHAUS was trying to get at when he was attacking you over spamming variants. Taking all those rules away from DoTE means it's not the same variant anymore. There's no point porting a variant when all the special rules that make it balanced are taken away. Quality over quantity. David spent a ton of time designing the variant as it stands, and taking away a lot of those special designs makes the variant unrecognizable. That's the reason NWO never got ported (although a version of the map did, but not the actual variant), as it has too many special rules/units to work with vDip. I don't see any reason to port DoTE to vDip, as you'd have to make LOTS of changes to the game to try to recreate balance once all the special rules are taken away.
DoTEs come rules are significantly more game changing than the ones in Maharajah. Changing DoTEs rules would drastically alter the variant to the point where it's something completely different."
David E. Cohen (1000 D)
New 11:00 AM
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I am on the fence as to whether the special rules are worth the effort. I am an experienced GM, but it takes me several hours to adjudicate a turn and I keep making adjudication errors.
I may also go the route of having two "sister" variants, one with simplified rules.
David E. Cohen (1000 D)
New 01:28 PM
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Further on special rules, the more complicated/further away from Standard the rules of a variant are, the fewer the number of players who are willing to play it. So I do try to minimize rule changes. In the spectrum of my variants, DotE is definitely one of the most complicated.